teasler

Hearing your side of things I began to understand where Moira was coming from . And it really did gave me an understanding how much both Moira and Jazmin love Ads. It’s funny, It would be pretty interesting if Jazmin and Moria ended up thanking each other. Let me explain because of Jazmin’s decision this allowed Moria to heal and spend next years of her life happy and fulfilled more than she has before, and she had the chance to love Ads and know what it felt to be loved by her. And Because of Moria interest in Ads she gave her success, independence and strength and the ability to accept herself and choices in life. She took care of her when Jaz couldn’t. And even when dying she made sure to have her assistant or employer send Jaz an invitation to Ads open gallery so she can see her again and be able to be there and love her when she no longer could. That’s why I love and I’m protected of both of these characters. And of course there is no excuse for what they did, but I can forgive what they both did, because it came from a place of love. 

teasler

I just feel that with Moira and Ads relationship there was some form of closure. And I feel that maybe I’m holding on too much on how Jaz character was in the first book and I still see that person sometimes in the third. That I had trouble accepting that Moria holds bigger place in Ads heart. I love Moira’s character and I just had the conflicting feeling of being devastated by her death but I couldn’t get that betrayal out of my head and I feel guilty because she loved her and made Ads so happy and doesn’t need a grudge to be held even when she’s gone. But I just wanted to not feel crazy that I’m feeling this way. I can see now how Ads would have chosen Moira over Jazmin if she was still alive and quite frankly I found myself thinking they would have better as friends and slowly got to forgive each other instead of jumping back together so quickly. It just I can’t help but see myself in Jazmin when comes to her insecurities and over protectiveness and “I must be the only one to save and change the lives of those I love” which isn’t healthy. But I just feel that Jazmin never got help and worked on herself after her first wife cheated, and kinda fell in love with Ads when her heart wasn’t truly ready. Yeah she lost her because of insecurities but also realized that maybe she didn’t think through all the issues she has in her self that she never worked on. What I love about Moira is that she learned to accept that certain things happen and to learn from them and she didn’t jump into relationship with Ads until she was comfortable and open enough in heart to let her in. 

On_my_way_to_hell

I can understand how Jaz must have felt
             Its hard if not near impossible to compete with a ghost. My memory is a bit hazy so i forgot those bits. I guess that was nice of her. And in the end she got her happily ever after
Reply

teasler

Yeah, I think that it would have taken her long time for her to forgive Moira, but I think she would have one day. And it hurt me too when she did that as well, but i think she wasn’t trying to erase her but didn’t want to feel that she was constantly measuring up to Moria. There are many moments where Jazmin understood how much Moira meant to her and has apologized about wearing her culottes and touching her stuff and respecting her room. I think that’s why she agreed having her keep some of personal belongings, and was fine with Moira’s parents being at their wedding and getting to know them on the vacation, and keeping Moira’s apartment. She should have given her time and let her gradually decide on her own if she want to sell her things.  But I understand where you’re  coming from 
Reply

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler I only wish that Jaz didn't force Ads in the third book. That was what really hurt me. It felt to me like she was trying to erase every part of Moira from Ads life
Reply

teasler

But she did it because she thought that Ads life was truly her owns after she freed her, but it ended being not the case. And the way Ads sorta blames Jazmin that she feel love with Moira in the consequence of her decision is not fair because Ads could have confronted Jazmin in her right and choice to do so if she wanted her back, even if she felt she had no choice, she did. Jazmin had intentions of winning her back but saw she signed the divorce papers and was in a relationship already and didn’t  want to ruin that. While it seems that Moira had no problem of playing a part of  ending Ads and Jazmin’s marriage.  I feel for Jazmin because she is blamed for a moment of insecurity and the belief she was holding her back, as a way that she is not allowed to feel sadness, and jealousy, that woman that played a major role in her doubting herself and I turn losing the love her life managed to win Ads love and gave everything that Jazmin so desperately wanted to give Ads but couldn’t. That feeling that you can’t give the person you love so much everything they  want and deserve but someone else can is heartbreaking. I can understand her hatred and at times insensitive and callous feelings about Moira and Ads relationship. And the way that she will never measure up or meet the expectations of what Moira did for Ads is not an easy pill to swallow or deal with.

teasler

I’m not trying to paint Jaz as the one that does no wrong. She was not understanding at all and made insensitive and jealous actions. I can’t really let that slide, so your right about that I just personally found that if Jaz met Moira in person and her her side of things and what was going had the opportunity to meet her like Ads had met Grace and Lilith. I feel Jazmin would be more understanding in that regard. I also understand why  Jaz did what she did because Moira never met or seen what Ads was like when she was a teenager. How she acted heavily condition to follow direction of those who are her authority. I feel what Jazmin did when she treated Ads like property still carried with her to the decision she has made. She really felt she have influenced Ads into this relationship even though they truly loved each other they both agreed had a lot of regrets and it was rushed to quickly. I think what Jazmin did was a good decision because don’t think that Ads would be half as independent and strong as she is if she still had Jaz as a safety net. And Ads even told Jazmin that she could have ended up resenting her if she didn’t do what she did.
Reply

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler You know you were right when you said that these charactes are two sides of the same coin. They have both essentially done the same thing. They both betrayed Ads in their own way.  They have both decided for her. But you see differences like how Jaz let her go whereas Moira admitted that she would have begged her to stay. Moira understood that she was still attached to her ex wife so she was patient whereas Jaz wasn't out of her jealousy. Its just that Jaz's actions are subtle so they go unnoticed
Reply

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler You say Moira decided the path for Ads. And i completely agree on that. But by letting her free.. didn't Jaz decide that it was what Ads wanted and needed. When in truth all Ads wanted at that time was to be with Jaz. You are not supposed to hand your lover anything. In this case Jaz wanted to give her a success. But all she had to do was be with Ads and she would have done it on her own. She could have communicated her doubts but she didn't. And Moira didn't break them up. It was a conscious decision of Jaz herself. I just can't paint her out to be a victim of this
Reply

teasler

And that in the end Moira didn’t have to much to lose at the end because she was already dying and took that leap. As long as she got Ads love and was able to pass on her legacy it would have been worth it even if Ads forgiven her or not. Moira everything she wanted and then some. I feel that in the third book Jazmin so criticized for the same at times selfish and insensitive behavior that Moira did in the second book. And she is condemned to her  poor decision that was made in although selfish intent but made out of insecurity and guilt that she may have been holding Ads back. And I felt that it seems that Moira’s betrayal was gone done to not being as bad compare to Jazmin. When it isn’t. Ads didn’t have much of a choice in a lot of things going on in her life because a lot of it was influence Moira. Even there are few things that Moira had no control in. I just feel that at times Jazmin is seen unreasonable or unjustified in her hatred towards Moira because she passed away. Which I understand why she feels the way she does because with the limited interaction between Moira and Jazmin. Moira treated her as less than and threw a check in her face and was demanding the painting of Ads. And it puts this blame just on Jazmin that her poor decision was the cause of all that happened when it really didn’t, was it what open the doors to that happening... yes

teasler

I don’t think that Jaz’s ultimatum wouldn’t have worked either, if Jaz talked to Ads about it  and not push her in a corner and they both understood both sides, I believe a lot of Moira’s belongings would have not been sold.
Reply

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler I think it is mostly Adalyne's story. So we see it through her perspective mostly. So some parts of Jaz and Moira would still be hidden from us. And I think the 3rd book was a bit rushed. Your mum is right about that. And I don't think that ultimatum of Jaz would have worked in real. One always has a hard time parting with the last belongings of a loved one. 
Reply

teasler

I know  how the event affected Moira  when she did have much to live for and then saw Ads painting had something to live for, and ultimately started making plans knowing her time was ticking. I meant more on the lines that once she found her, met her and developed a relationship with her she realize that she was getting weaker and sicker, and that drive of course drove her to get obsessively in love with Ads  and know that she doesn’t have  anything else to lose so might as well go all in before her mortality catches up to her.  It’s just she was with Ads for a year and half or more and chose not to be gradually more honest. And when Jazmin wanted Ads to lose all of Moria belongings some of it was extreme. But the paintings her car, the school being named after her those things should have been kept. But the other properties around the world except for her main apartment that they spent at, then yes I understand how those would go. And Jazmin should have been more patient because it took Ads 8 years to stop wearing her wedding ring even when she was with Moira. So yeah Jaz was extremely in the wrong there.  I guess there wasn’t much closer and understanding and a full conversation with Jaz and Ads that I feel we got with Moira and Ads. Yes they ended up married again but it just feels off, that Ads never would have chosen Jazmin again of Moira was still alive, and I feel Jazmin realizes that too, and can’t seem to let go that all it took was one bad decision and she lost the love her life. And I have been told mostly by my own mom that losing someone deeply love and there were your world in a breakup or separation feels like mourning a loss of a love one. I feel that we definitely got to see that with Ads but we didn’t get to see how truly it affected Jazmin because we don’t get much on that. 
Reply

teasler

And even though she had good intentions, her obsessive love for Ads has made her selfishness be the forefront of her plan and relationship with Ads. I never doubted the love Moira had for Ads, but  I find myself not to be able to get past it, because her plan hurt so many people. I hate being manipulated and have someone making a major life decisions for me without consulting with  me because they thought it was best(whether it was or wasn’t) I feel that Moira also had the experience of knowing of taking for granted or doubting the love of her life. So she has the opportunity to make up for that past mistake. While Jazmin didn’t have the opportunity until after, because she had a child at 36 or 37 which would have made Ads in early 20s still, and didn’t come back to fight for her because she had to focus on her daughter and knew that Ads would not be ready for that.

teasler

Yes I agree, I do believe that was on her, and  I don’t  think that it was Moira’s fault that Jazmin made that poor decision. I think it’s just that the decision Jazz made is common one that is made by most people, and Moira blames Jazmin said she didn’t love her enough so that’s why she let her go, but  still with the knowledge knowing she played a part in the break up and has made similar mistakes in the past. But tells Ads this, knowing that Ads may have not know the full reason Jazmin can to that bad decision.
Reply

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler I wouldn't blame Jaz's missing out on Ads life completely on Moira tho. Did Moira orchestra their break up... Yes. But you have to admit that letting Ads go was completely Jazz's own fault. 
Reply

teasler

So I am having trouble still to forgive Moira because what she did although was out of sort of good intentions was a major invasion of privacy and boundaries. And I never doubt Moira’s love for her, and wanted to give her the world, but she didn’t ask Ads beforehand if that’s what she truly wanted. And though yes Ads had a form of control after Moira’s death she didn’t have much choice during their relationship. Moira wanted to free her but in reality she was making decisions and influence Ads to be on path that she wanted her to be and didn’t think about what she truly wanted. And didn’t give her the option to decide for herself. Although even though Moira apologized it came a bit to late, because she was in a critical stage and was dying soon. She didn’t have to see the affects of her betrayal of Ads months or years later because she passed with a peace of mind. I feel as though that Moira was at an unfair advantage because she saw certain parts of Ads life that Jazmin couldn’t have. And had the resource, the money, and influence have what she wanted. 

On_my_way_to_hell

@teasler  Yes i agree on the part that it was complete violation of Ads privacy. There is no doubt about that. And Moira could have had a chance at life if she wanted. But i think she denied it because all of her wrong doing with Ads and Grace's death weighted heavily on her. And her revealing it to Ads might have influenced Ads forgiveness. But i don't think Ads went easy on her. They have both broken each other down. Yes what Moira did was a betrayal that will last a lifetime but she also paid it with her life. And about the unfair advantage.. I guess it comes with being in the same business. And Ads career evidently progressed with that advantage. Jaz has witnessed Ads as a young adult and finally becoming her own woman tho. And I don't think Jaz could have connected with Ads as an artist the same way as Moira did. And even so Jaz and Moira both lacked the understanding that she had with Grace. She (Grace) acknowledged the darkness within Ads. 
Reply

teasler

I already read the book and not to risk spoilers, I will message you here. So I already had long detailed explanation on my thoughts that were  erased because it was too long so... I’m going to try to remember everything and break it up.